covid19CalmNCritical - Comments


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ToddR is in the usergroup ‘Administrators’
I'd like to preface my comments with the following line stolen from A Christmas Carol which I modified slightly:

"There is no doubt that psychopaths and other chaos inducing personality disorders run rampant in the so called halls and rooms of power, governmental positions of rule and rot. This must be distinctly understood, or nothing wonderful can come of the story I am going to relate."

Great observations, Todd.
Thanx ****, appreciated! :)

I've tended towards skepticism as this started to unfold and of course have been reading, reading, reading not to mention learning to 'digest' these radical circumstances. I don't believe everything everyone tells me and have pondered the 'how is this different from the flu' issue as well. I even went on the Canadian government website to seek out the numbers of flu deaths etc for the past few years.
Most excellent! Do you think that your library background encourages this or is it in your nature or a mixture of both?

Here is the thing: I FEEL that these extreme measures that we are taking are being taken under the guidance of public health officials. These are doctors and scientists who are not usually given to extremism and whose number one goal is protecting the health of the 'masses'. Our politicians in Canada seem to be acting on the advice of these folks and that is comforting to me. These are extremely radical measures mediated by an unprecedented social safety net to make them more manageable to reduce panic etc.
While you may be spot on, we always have to keep in mind that at the policy making level, all these folks do is recommend, nothing more. Some questions:
  • How deep is the concern that not making recommendations along government lines will result in the loss of their job? There are uncountable examples of this exact thing happening since monarchy/government began.
  • How do we, how do they, know that the information being provided to them for decision making is accurate, factual, truthful? Two of the biggest players in this saga, the US and China are also two of the biggest known state level liars and spreaders of misinformation/propaganda.
Politicians first and foremost act based on what's best for keeping their jobs…this also can, and often does, include what's best for their major donors and/or lobbyists. Secondly they act in the direction which they think they're right…whether they are is not that important to them. Thirdly, they act in whatever manner voters and potential voters alike want them to, especially when they are face to face with them. In this last case, how many promises are made by a politician during an election only to be subsequently broken once votes are counted and they come out on top? As a quick example among many: our sitting PM did this exact thing with regards to election reform. Given the context and its ramifications, this was not just some 'simple' lie break but quite massive one.
Can you POSSIBLY imagine Doug Ford in Ontario enacting these measures if he wasn't convinced that they were needed?
*grin*, on this point Jacqui, a resounding thunderous 100% yes!

Doug Ford is one of the best examples of a self serving politician whose actions in toto have shown some real strong narcissistic tendencies as well. His almost immediate attacks on the City of Toronto are a prime example here. Other than living there, he would have no other reason to do so beyond revenge for how he perceived his brother's treatment as mayor…a treatment and scorn that ole Robby brought mostly on himself I might add.

Let's look at it this way if I may: there is no denying that the Ford government to date has been just this side of a total train wreak, a train that was carrying burning dumpsters. He and Trudeau have had a couple of tit-tats as well. A narcissist, especially one in a position of power, will stop at virtually nothing to revenge what is perceived as someone one-upping-them in the sphere they exist; politics, leadership and power in this case. On the flip side, things haven't been going that great for Mr. Trudeau either. He didn't get his majority government and was currently embroiled in struggles with groups across Canada and from the perspective of many in Alberta, a province as well. Both individuals were also facing a slide in popularity.

Then along comes COVID-19 and the encore bonus of having it declared a pandemic, a declaration that changes things even further. This is just about the best gift both men could ever have hoped for! They both have a chance to look like heroes to the population (I would wager Dougie also wanted to one up Trudeau), increase their approval ratings and the added encore bonus of being able to pass almost any legislation that can be framed or pitched as being good for Canada, good for Ontario…a frightened population is a pliable population willing to allow extraordinary things to be perpetrated upon them. Who's talking about Ontario's new license plates now? Pipe lines and blockades? Virtually every single thing these, and many other political types, do surrounding COVID-19 will be run thru their respective 'how does this benefit me politically' or 'what can I do with this current affair to transparently use it for my own benefit' filters…it's the nature of the beast as it were.

IMHO, what we are really witnessing, aside from a major over-hype and fear campaign, is not so much government doing anything but rather the local hospitals, health units, et al executing policy and procedure manuals that already existed. Having spend some time working in nursing homes, long term care facilities, retirement homes and a co-op term in a hospital, I have seen many of these manuals, did drills from them and in one instance helped with the authoring of same. While it may be argued that they were written under the purview of government rules and regs, and it would be true, that in no way means that a government is the only source capable of producing a policy and procedure manual, one that is geared towards protection of the individuals who fall under its mandate. I would also argue that many gov rules/regs are not designed with individual's protections in mind but instead those of again, donors and lobbyists but that is a separate discussion altogether. One group who can ensure the best quality services, offered with the consumer in mind are consumers themselves. In a world without a government horking all one's wealth, a world where multinational corporations could not exist, at least no where near what they are today, this world would see businesses competing with each other not only for labour but also for customers. They will have no choice but to offer the best they can to both groups or face bankruptcy, no government required.

One dark side of the force point out, and the primary reason for my opening sentence. I offer this as a concept example and not anything specific, those are separate discussions too. The individuals in government do not operate in a vacuum and they are essentially a social circle unto themselves, just global in nature. The individuals making up the US government, past and present, are a glaring example of empire whose endless incursions into the business of others, country level included, are thankfully very well documented. Many of these incursions have resulted in the death and destruction of hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions while leaving many others living squalor and suffering. If certain members of the US gov gang were interested in capitalizing on the hysteria created by a pandemic scare but needed other governments to go along with it, well, all that would be needed is a quick fone call and the deed would be done. To illustrate the reality of this, a dude named John Perkins has a couple of videos out discussing how this works: An Economic Hit Man Confesses and Calls to Action | John Perkins | TEDxTraverseCity and John Perkins Confession of an Economic Hitman. Further, if an organization like the CIA were to be introduced to the mix, no telling how nasty one of those phone calls could be. On the flip side, these 'calls' don't have to be dark either. The promise of wealth & power is an often irresistible carrot to dangle in front of a politicians nose.
Hopefully all of this will signal that we need to improve our capacity to deal with future pandemics as I am pretty sure this will not be our last. We've been caught short on the supply side and I am pretty sure this will not happen again. I have always wondered why we haven't been more upset by the numerous flu deaths.
While I'm prolly further on the 'capitalism, let the market take care of this' side than you are, in principle at least however, we are in agreement on all your points here for sure.

I've had a severe case of pneumonia myself four years ago and I can assure you it was the worst illness of my life and one I'd not want to repeat. Better treatments are needed. WAY WAY more focus on prevention, how to use nutrition to boost our immune systems, making health fruit and vegetables more easily available than unhealthy processed foods. Our new Canada Food Guide is a great step forward. I think once we have all gotten over the shock of all of this, we will have time to think more critically about what is going on.
Yuck! Based on what I've heard and read from other afflictees, I can just imagine what an awful experience that was for you. Glad you recovered and I hope no long lasting health effects?

Again, 100% agreement on all your points!

Those of us without young children at home and who are not 'in the trenches' (like us retired people) can sit back and criticize but when I see someone like Doug Ford shutting down non-essential businesses, I know that he believes that there is something going on that we need to pull out all the stops to deal with.
We'll have to agree to disagree here :) I offer this definition with the utmost respect to you and not as judgment or condescension:
Halo effect (sometimes called the halo error) is the tendency for positive impressions of a person, company, brand or product in one area to positively influence one's opinion or feelings in other areas.[1][2] It is a type of cognitive bias[3] and is the opposite of the horn effect. ~ Wikipedia

So there's my two cents!
Thanx for those cents and sense, very much appreciated!! :)
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